New York, Madrid...and London
A question to ponder: Will the English respond like America or like Spain to being used like human pinatas? Something tells me Londoners, including its Muslims, were enjoying the respite from the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s. Al Qaeda may have picked the wrong crusader to bully this time.
Let us pray or the victims, for the British medical teams, for Prime Minister Blair, and say an extra prayer for the butchers who did this.
And plug your ears in advance for the deafening roar of universal Muslim condemnation of what was done today in the name of the Religion of Peace.
posted by Patrick at 2:26 PM
24 Comments:
I watch the bombings and find them very nice.
Thank you!
2:48 PM
Let's all say five Hail Mary's for mohammad q, shall we?
What the world needs now is love, sweet love. Sing it with me....
9:53 PM
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
10:15 PM
if he (mohammad q) was serious, im chilled to my bones. If he was kidding, im disgusted. I live in Mumbai, which has suffered no less than 7 blasts in the last 3 years. Killing innocent people is not 'nice' Mr. q, its downright evil.
12:03 AM
Something about "only by prayer and fasting..."
12:52 AM
Whether he was joking or not, mo needs our prayers.
And a two-by-four upside the head.
I bet his real name isn't even mohammad. I'm guessing it's Kip. Or Morgan. Probably got off his X-Box just long enough to post something completely retarded on a blog he's never seen before.
6:42 AM
When the first reports came across the media I think it was Tony Blair who said the terrorist are trying to divert attention away from the G-8 summit and put it on themselves. For Mohammad q post is trying to do the same thing. The question is England going to respond more like Spaniards or Aussie's? One comment I heard which I have thought over is how the terrorist have no imagination, same rhetoric and strategies. They hit a major Western city and the only choice and I do mean only choice given is to surrender or fight. Tell me knowing human nature whose side will gain strength?
9:05 AM
Anon:
Exactly, as my original post said. Shall we be Britons or Spaniards?
9:16 AM
Frenchie and everyone else: passionate comments, including strident disagreement with me, are warmly welcomed. Just try and keep the F-bomb in that B-52 of yours, 'k?.
I know, I know, "How can he delete the F-bomb but keep Mohammad Q's comment"? I'll tell you: Sometimes the idiotic needs to be displayed as such. He used up his one strike.
9:57 AM
Ah, yes, Don Dignum, kill, kill, kill -- as our Lord commands and as all the saints have faithfully done.
2:44 PM
non sum dignus:
You once signed off with dominus vobiscuN (not M) and I let it slide. But I'm terribly, terribly sorry to have made an error in your handle.
I don't have to time to parse every line of yours. This will have to suffice: I am well aware that popes have authorized legitmate wars. I am well aware that just war is just. I am well aware that Muslim hordes have in the past been rightly rebuffed militarily. I have defended the Crusades many times. "Peacenik, superstar Jesus" is a dumb fantasy created by Sixties maroons.
But in what sense is England a "Christian nation"? How about America -- beyond the conservative catchphrase "Christian America" -- how many of its laws (eg Roe v Wade) or cultural priorities (MTV, Madonna, Hugh Hefner) remotely resemble a Christian worldview? Equating medieval attacks by organized invading Muslims with the amoral evil of al Qaeda (which routinely slaughters fellow Muslims) is unwise and incorrect. Al Zarqawi, bin Ladin and Co. are not attacking Christendom any more than the US action in Iraq was an attack against Islam.
The political and inter-cultural nuances at work here are, uh, slightly more complex than jingoistic take-no-prisoners rants pre-suppose.
"we will unite and do everything in our power to send you and your murderous, cowardly ilk straight to hell where you can hang out burning in hell for eternity with your founder, mohammed (may he burn in hell). Oops, one correction, we already ARE sending your buddies to hell!"
Don't you see how this kind of retarded hyperbole makes you sound? Are these words reflective of the love commanded by Christ? I'm sniffing around for any tiny trace of loving one's enemy, but the trail is cold.
The war against Christianity is being waged far more effectively by Christians themselves at the moment than by a statistically insignificant number of Islamist suicide bombers. (BTW, the "very existence of Christendom" is not, and cannot, be truly extinguished since our Lord promised an indefectible Church, as in, one that will last until His return. Where's your faith?)
One more thing: in refering as you do to the "OT Jesus" you make a logical error. "Jesus" is the given name of the Son of Mary, at a point in history after He acquired a human nature. Although the Eternal Word pre-existed the historical Jesus -- indeed all of creation -- it's fallacious to start talking about Jesus giving the Law to Moses, Jesus sending plagues upon Egypt, etc etc.
4:06 PM
Interesting debate. I agree with Patrick that Christ taught us to love our enemies and that we should forgive, but there's a fine line between forgiving your enemies and allowing them to continue their evil deeds. I don't believe Patrick is saying we should excuse what is being done by the terrorists, but we (as Christians) need to be careful to keep our hearts pure and our attitudes in check. Animosity and hatred such as that exhibited in the posts by Non Sum Dignus serve the enemy more than they serve us. Yes, we must bring the terrorists to justice, but let's not jeopardize our own relationships with Christ in doing so.
5:51 PM
MMM:
Just the comment I was waiting for. What's the mood like in England now? We read so much about Arab paranoia about a perceived "backlash" as opposed to a real terrorist bombing. Would be very interested to hear more from the British perspective. How will the British Intel agencies you mentioned go about bringing justice to the perpetrators when al Qaeda is notoriously diffuse and "global"?
Kevin:
Yes, and yes. Commenters like non sum dignus enjoy claiming the Pure Catholic High Ground, and painting his adversaries as limp-wristed waifs. As if any thinking person is opposed to killing terrorists or forcefully answering the Islamo-fascist threat. I just think that conversion to Jesus Christ will trump more and more violent counter-terrorism measures, however important they may be. I apparently sin against non sum's ideology in that I don't assume Muhammad to be burning in the fires of hell, nor do I wish anyone to go there.
non sum:
You hear what you want to hear, sir. Sorry, but I can't join you in wishing that the terrorists suffer the torments of eternal hell. Another thing: The Catholic Church has never taught that the prophet Muhammad is in hell. But you're quite certain he is.
Your gung-ho "yahoo" attitude, while admirably firm (backhanded compliment, free of charge) is impossible to argue with. Ergo, I shant. But hell (metaphorically speaking, of course) thanks for contributing to Seize the Dei!
7:38 PM
I do apologise for dropping a few nasties on ur blog.....however I was completely outraged at mohammed q's comment. It came straight from the heart. Every sinister word was meant at such a comment of his and I still can't believe the insensitive nature of his comment. It's people like him making our world an unfriendly place. http://frenchyadv.com for anyone interested in replying. any feedback welcome. id be interested to hear from mohammed q.
11:30 PM
First off, I had to post here as "anonymous". I find it absolutely hilarious that Patrick cancelled my Non Sum Dignus account! My gosh, Patrick, I thought you wanted people to post! Obviously, only those who you can look down your nose and sneer at!
Patrick, you cancelled my account rather than read my posts. And you did it without even notifying me!You sir, are a moral coward.
But anyhow... on with my post!!
Patrick,
You posted something that I proved wrong your "kill, kill, kill" post), and were proven wrong. Accept it, practice humility and move on. You are capable of such, are you not?
If you desire not to wish that those that fly airplanes into buldings and roast human beings alive... those that carve the heads off of innocent captives... those that set off car bombs outside of Catholic churches in Iraq, etc, etc, end up in hell, that is certainly your call. I on the other hand, will not shed a tear. If they repent, great. If not, looks like the they're sheol bound.
Another thing: When did I ever state that "The Catholic Church has never taught that the prophet Muhammad is in hell"? (by the way, I like the way you threw in the word "prophet". Shouldn't you have said "FALSE prophet"? How PC of you. I'm sure you have the backing of the limp wristed waif demographic). You also stated "But you're quite certain he is." Sure I am. You are familiar with The Church's teaching on the Unforgivable Sin, aren't you? Something about final unrepentance? In my opinion, that is exactly what the false prophet is guilty of. Oh... I can have that opinion, can't I?
And as far as my 'gung-ho "yahoo" attitude" is concerned, I've earned it. I've actually seen what these animals can do. I have fought against them. I'm sure that you have dealt face to face with these individuals... well as far as Hollywood Blvd anyhow. What a comfortable life you must live. (backhanded compliment, free of charge).
Lastly, your right! it is impossible to argue with my initial response to you. You were proven wrong and your overinflated sense of intellectual superiority and self-worth won't allow you to admit such.
So getting back to the initial posts... your right, Our Lord and the Saints HAVE given the examples that killing can be the correct course of action.
Very good. You get a cookie.
3:22 AM
Non sum:
I have no idea what you're talking about re: "cancelling your account." I don't even know how to do that. If you mean deleted a comment, then I can tell you in all honesty that I've only deleted one comment because of profanity, and the commenter was nice enough to apologize.
What will tempt me to ban you is your habit of not reading what I write, and then being called a moral coward. It's called civility. Yu might look into it. To take two instances of your seeing what you want to see: You say, "Our Lord and the Saints HAVE given the examples that killing can be the correct course of action." I never once said I thought killing couldn't be the correct course of action.
You say, "Another thing: When did I ever state that 'The Catholic Church has never taught that the prophet Muhammad is in hell'"? I never said that you stated that the Church taught that he was in hell. What I said was, the Church does not teach that he is in hell, nor that any particular person is in hell, not even Judas (although the case for Judas being in hell at least has some scriptural support. But your Zeal for the Truth (the best euphemism for Blinded by Hate) demands that you be certain that Muhammad is in hell. It's where you very much want him to be, along with his followers who do harm to innocent persons. This, I say, is the unChristian part. And no, I am not opposed to killing terrorists er se.
So non sum, you see I'm a pretty reasonable fella. I allow you to misquote me, to call me insulting names, and I've put up with your near-constant flow of childish sarcasm, along with being falsely accused of "cancelling your account." And not one post of yours has been deleted, despite whatever tech problems you're having.
You say youev fought these animals personally. I have not. So thank you for your service if that's the case. You choose to post anonymously or with a Latinism so you could be the Easter bunny as far as I know.
7:48 AM
Say what you must. If that's what it takes to make you feel better about yourself.
You still nontheless have failed re: your "kill, kill, kill" post. And also as unfortunant, you have yet to answer a single one of my responses.
Also, "childish sarcasm"? You must be kidding. I supose your "kill, kill, kill" post was a mature, well thought out response. What was said about those that live in glass houses? Sparky, if you can't take it, don't dish it out. If you don't like sarcasm, don't initiate with such. Yes, it really is that simple.
So I will close with, yet again, telling you that Our Lord and the Saints HAVE stated that killing at certain times is a correct course of action. Your verbal gymnastics and ability to tap dance around responing to simple, straightforward responses are telling towards your character, or lack thereof.
I'll keep it real simple...
***Ah, yes, Don Dignum, kill, kill, kill -- as our Lord commands and as all the saints have faithfully done.***
I gave numerous examples of
when Our Lord and the saints have authorized and even participated in such, your sarcasm withstanding.
You have failed miserably in responding to my rather straightforward responses.
How sad..... how sad.
Keep fighting the good fight from the comfort of your recliner. Leave the real fighting to men such as myself. Oh, by the way... I honestly do think that me putting my life on the line so you can be safe and warm does entitle me to an opinion that you find distastful.
9:01 AM
OK, time for me to put my ego in check. Patrick, I apologize to you. I did find it rather odd that when I attempted to log in this morning, I was greeted with "no account" or words to that effect. Obviously, it's some sort of 'net foul up, and I mistakenly blamed Patrick for that. yet again, I apologize for such.
Also, I realize that my initial post to Mo'Q was rather fiery. I guess I can live with that. I've been known to be rather fiery in the past.
But Patrick, I must say that I really didn't appriciate the rather sarcastic and condescending "kill, kill, kill" response you posted for me. But I let it go. In fact, I even gave you specific cases to back up my asertion.
Patrick, would it have been so hard for you to simply say something like "you may be right", and left it at that?
Dominus Vobiscum Y'all
9:40 AM
Anon/Non sum:
I can't win. I thanked you for your service, I thanked you I appreciate your contribution to the com box. Yet you angrily accused me of kicking you off and have not apologized. Despite a fair amount of nasty personal comments, I've kept the discussion moving forward where many bloggers, trust me, would have disinvited you.
But your last response proves that you see what you want. I've read your comments elsewhere, whoever-you-are. You're more Catholic than the Pope, more traditional than the traditionalists. Fine by me. But don't expect infinite patience from your interlocters.
BTW, I stand by my "kill kill kill" reference. It means you demonstrate a high level of rah rah jingoism, and a low level of evangelization. That's your right, and I think my readers can discern where you're coming from. When challenged, you fall back on macho hyperbole. It's now officially funny how you keep misquoting me, even after I point it out with specific examples.
The amusing irony is calling me a moral coward -- this from a guy (?) who doesn't sign his real name to his opinions.
9:40 AM
I see we both posted at the exact same time. I'll give Patrick the benifit of the doubt that he hasn't read my last posting.
One thing I must say, many folks have various handles.... does that make them cowards?
But I digress, hopefully Patrick simply hasn't seen my last post. I would hate to think that what he just posted was after reading such. Oh well... time will tell
1:56 PM
Non sum/anonymous:
"I see we both posted at the exact same time. I'll give Patrick the benefit of the doubt that he hasn't read my last posting."
Hey, I see progress. Apology accepted. Thanks this time for not assuming the worst. And, no, I did not see the post before replying.
As for the "kill, kill, kill" thing, you HAVE to understanding that I meant it to be funny, as though Jesus, in full Army fatigues, stood up and bellowed it in between "blessed are the peacemakers" and "the meek shall inhereit the earth." You misread my tone, which is why I was taken aback at your aggressive follow-ups. My intention was not to set you up or make you mad. I admit email sucks when it comes to conveying the subtleties and tones of irony.
Per using pseudonyms online, frankly I do think there's something cowardly about it. "Cowardly" is a bit strong, but a lot of people come across like Al Capone and say things -- hiding behind a handle -- they'd never dream of saying if their true identities were attached. Someone can sign in as if they're a US Marine or the President of Bessarabia, but for all I know, they're an Idaho soccer mom.
I couldn't care less how you self-ID in St. Blog's; I only mention it because you brought it up.
Thanks for keepin' it lively!
5:02 PM
Fair enough, I did misread your initial tone. I'm sure you can reasonably see how one could take the "kill x 3" post as an open invitation to Sacas-mania 2005.
OK, enough of that silliness behind us.
I understand what you are saying about the peace that Christ preached about. We all know the passages... "turn the other cheek; carry the pack the extra distance; etc"
Here's what I'm getting at.... Christ was no absolute pacifist (as we both know).
My position is still as straightforward as before. There are instances when killing to defend the innocent isn't just the correct course of action... it's the Catholic course of action (Just War theory, defence of one's family, etc.) Granted, Christ never ran around w/ a .50 cal sniper rifle calling for the deaths of those who opposed Him, but the actions of the Pre-Incarnate Words (and not to mention Canonized Saints, Popes, Catholic monarchs, etc, etc... well, I'm sure you see where I'm going)
And as far as handles are concerned, I kind of enjoy my nom de internet plume. But in the spirit of internet openness, I'll sign off as I do all my correspondence.
Kevin Whiteman
MSgt USMC (ret)
2:13 AM
Thanks, non sum/anon/Kevin:
Deft use of French, as well. And thanks for your service in defending the country. It's more than I have done.
Semper fi.
8:14 AM
Sheesh, shouldn't we have kept it this simple from the git-go?
*evil grin with accusing eyes glanced in BOTH directions!*
Pax,
Kevin
8:48 AM
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